استفسار من مالكى التيجو؟؟؟؟؟

[mantoros]

cool down folks you are not in a fight.....i've been following the tiggo news and reading your threads coz i like this car but i was shocked by the aggressiveness in your talks.......everyone says his opinion in a cool way and we are all brothers and friends in the end

i personally like the tiggo so much and think seriously to sell my wife's avio to get her the tiggo (i cant offcourse change my subaru ;-) )
but we still need more time to properly evaluate this car on the long run.....my brother will get his tiggo this week isa and i'll tell u the news dear friends...........good luck for u all

slamo aleko اختلاف الاراء لا يفسد للود قضية
dr.shamel soaida

[WALEED9001]

واللهى يا جامعة انا سعيد جدا بهذا الموضوع ياريت كل من عندة فكرة او موضوع جديد حلول السيارة التيجو 1600 يطرحو وكمان انا سمعت ان للمنتدى صلة بمجموعة من مسؤولى التوكيلات يمكن انت نعرض عليهم اى عيب جوهرى فى السيارة وبارجو من السادة الاعضاء تناول الموضوع بفكر النصيحة ونفع الناس وليس باى اسلوب اخر والسلام عليكم ورحمت الله وبركاته

[attiahf]

اقترح ان مجموعة الاعضاء مالكى التيجو يجتمعوا على عمل مذكرة تفصيلية بالمشكلة ويتم نقلها الى الادارة العليا لاسبيرانزا مع ارسال صورة الى جهاز حماية المستهلك عن طريق الايميل
واعتقد ان ذلك سوف يحرك الموضوع

[hesham_soaida]

اقتباس:
أرسل أصلا بواسطة saloumi
الماتور بالطول ولا بالعرض سحب امامي ولا خلفي مافيه عربيات ماركات محترمة جدا بنفس النظام ! مش عارف الكلام اللي بقراوا من بعض الناس جابوه منيين لذلك اكرر ارجو من كل من يكتب ان يكون صادق النيه ولا يقول الا الحق مع خالص تحياتي للجميع

قصدك ايه ؟

هل انت بتقول أن موتورها بالطول ؟

هل تتهمنى بعدم الصدق فى النيه ؟

ولا لازم أدخل أشكر فيها علشان أبقى صادق النيه ؟

بتقول إن فيه ماركات محترمه زيها ؟

مفيش ماركات محترمه زيها يا باشا

مفيش عربيه جيب موتورها بالعرض

العربيه موتورها بالعرض وأنا اتفرجت عليها لأنى كنت بفكر فيها لكن لما لقيت موتورها بالعرض صرفت نظر عنها ( أنا حر ) يمكن أنا غلطان لكن معتقدش إن ده تصميم كويس




عندما تقرأ الموضوع التالي سوف تجد أن المواتير سواء اللتي بالطول أو بالعرض, كل منها لها ميزاتها وعيوبها, والتفضيل بينهم يكون على أساس احتياج الشخص وامكانياته المادية. انا شخصيا اقتنعت جدا بالموتور العرضي والجر الامامي في التيجو بعد قرائتي لهذا الموضوع.

[hesham_soaida]

Front-wheel drive types

Advantages

• Interior space: Since the powertrain is a single unit contained in the engine compartment of the vehicle, there is no need to devote interior space for a driveshaft tunnel or rear differential, increasing the volume available for passengers and cargo.[1]
  • Instead, the tunnel may be used to route the exhaust system pipes.
• Weight: Fewer components usually means lower weight.
• Improved fuel efficiency due to less weight.
• Cost: Fewer material components and less installation complexity overall. However, the considerable MRSP differential between a FF and FR car cannot be attributed to layout alone. The difference is more probably explained by production volumes as most rear-wheel cars are usually in the sports/performance/luxury categories (which tend to be more upscale and/or have more powerful engines), while the FF configuration is typically in mass-produced mainstream cars. Few modern "family" cars have rear-wheel drive as of 2009, so a direct cost comparison is not necessarily possible. A contrast could be somewhat drawn between the FF Audi A4 and the FR BMW 3-Series, both which are in the compact executive car classification.[1]
• Improved drivetrain efficiency: the direct connection between engine and transaxle reduce the mass and mechanical inertia of the drivetrain compared to a rear-wheel drive vehicle with a similar engine and transmission, allowing greater fuel economy.[1]
• Assembly efficiency: the powertrain can often be assembled and installed as a unit, which allows more efficient production.[citation needed]
• Placing the mass of the drivetrain over the driven wheels moves the centre of gravity farther forward than a comparable rear-wheel drive layout, improving traction and directional stability on wet, snowy, or icy surfaces.[1][2][3]
• Predictable handling characteristics: front-wheel drive cars, with a front weight bias, tend to understeer at the limit, which (according to e.g. SAAB engineer Gunnar Larsson) is easier since it makes instinct correct in avoiding terminal oversteer, and less prone to result in fishtailing or a spin.[3][4]
• A skilled driver can control the movement of the car even while skidding by steering, throttling and pulling the hand brake (given that the hand brake operates the rear wheels as in most cases, with some Citroen and Saab models being notable exceptions). A small car with the FF layout is superior for motor sport events focusing on manouvreability such as Autotesting[8]
• It is easier to correct trailing-throttle or trailing-brake oversteer.[3]
• The wheelbase can be extended without building a longer driveshaft (as with rear wheel driven cars).

[hesham_soaida]

Disadvantages

• Torque steer is the tendency for some front-wheel drive cars to pull to the left or right under hard acceleration. It is a result of the offset between the point about which the wheel steers (which falls at a point which is aligned with the points at which the wheel is connected to the steering mechanisms) and the centroid of its contact patch. The tractive force acts through the centroid of the contact patch, and the offset of the steering point means that a turning moment about the axis of steering is generated. In an ideal situation, the left and right wheels would generate equal and opposite moments, canceling each other out, however in reality this is less likely to happen. Torque steer can be addressed by using a longitudinal layout, equal length drive shafts, half shafts, a multilink suspension or centre-point steering geometry.[9][10][11][12][13][14][15][16]
• Lack of weight shifting will limit the acceleration of a front-wheel drive vehicle. In a vehicle, the weight shifts back during acceleration, giving more traction to the rear wheels. This is one of the main reasons why nearly all racing cars are rear-wheel drive. However, since front-wheel drive cars have the weight of the engine over the driving wheels, the problem only applies in extreme conditions.
• In some towing situations, front-wheel drive cars can be at a traction disadvantage since there will be less weight on the driving wheels. Because of this, the weight that the vehicle is rated to safely tow is likely to be less than that of a rear-wheel drive or four-wheel drive vehicle of the same size and power.
• Traction can be reduced while attempting to climb a slope in slippery conditions such as snow or ice covered roadways.
• Due to geometry and packaging constraints, the CV joints (constant-velocity joints) attached to the wheel hub have a tendency to wear out much earlier than the universal joints typically used in their rear-wheel drive counterparts (although rear-wheel drive vehicles with independent rear suspension also employ CV joints and half-shafts). The significantly shorter drive axles on a front-wheel drive car causes the joint to flex through a much wider degree of motion, compounded by additional stress and angles of steering, while the CV joints of a rear wheel drive car regularly see angles and wear of less than half that of front wheel drive vehicles.
• They cannot compete in the sport of drifting due to the need of RWD to push rear of the vehicle in a circle.[citation needed] This is not necessarily an issue to most car manufacturers.
• Turning circle — FF layouts almost always use a Transverse engine ("east-west") installation, which limits the amount by which the front wheels can turn, thus increasing the turning circle of a front-wheel drive car compared to a rear-wheel drive one with the same wheelbase. A notable example is the original Mini. It is widely misconceived that this limitation is due to a limit on the angle at which a CV joint can be operated, but this is easily disproved by considering the turning circle of car models that use a longitudinal FF or F4 layout from Audi and (prior to 1992) Saab
• The FF transverse engine layout (also known as "east-west") restricts the size of the engine that can be placed in modern engine compartments, so it is rarely adopted by powerful luxury and sports cars. FF configurations can accommodate at most Inline-4 and V6 engines, while longer engines such as Inline-6 and 90° big-bore V8 will rarely fit, though there are exceptions. One way around this problem is using a staggered engine.

[hesham_soaida]

Rear wheel drive layouts

Sketch of FR layout

[edit] Advantages

• Even weight distribution — The layout of a rear wheel drive car is much closer to an even fore and aft weight distribution than a front wheel drive car, as more of the engine can lie between the front and rear wheels (in the case of a mid engine layout, the entire engine), and the transmission is moved much farther back.[18]
• Weight transfer during acceleration — During heavy acceleration, weight is placed on the rear, or driving wheels, which improves traction.
• No torque steer[19] (unless it's an all wheel steer with an offset differential).
• Steering radius — As no complicated drive shaft joints are required at the front wheels, it is possible to turn them further than would be possible using front wheel drive, resulting in a smaller steering radius for a given wheelbase.
• Better handling in dry conditions — the more even weight distribution and weight transfer improve the handling of the car. The front and rear tires are placed under more even loads, which allows for more grip while cornering.[20]
• Better braking — the more even weight distribution helps prevent lockup from wheels becoming unloaded under heavy braking.[20]
• Towing — Rear wheel drive puts the wheels which are pulling the load closer to the point where a trailer articulates, helping steering, especially for large loads.[21]
• Serviceability — Drivetrain components on a rear-wheel drive vehicle are modular and do not involve packing as many parts into as small a space as does front wheel drive, thus requiring less disassembly or specialized tools in order to service the vehicle.[citation needed]
• Robustness — due to geometry and packaging constraints, the universal joints attached to the wheel hub have a tendency to wear out much later than the CV joints typically used in front-wheel drive counterparts. The significantly shorter drive axles on a front-wheel drive car causes the joint to flex through a much wider degree of motion, compounded by additional stress and angles of steering, while the CV joints of a rear wheel drive car regularly see angles and wear of less than half that of front wheel drive vehicles.[citation needed]
• Can accommodate more powerful engines as a result of the longitudinal orientation of the drivetrain, such as the Inline-6 and 90° big-bore V8, making the FR a common configuration for luxury and sports cars. These engines are usually too long to fit in a FF transverse engine ("east-west") layout; the FF configuration can typically accommodate at the maximum an Inline-4 or V6.

[hesham_soaida]

[edit] Disadvantages

• Under heavy acceleration oversteer and fishtailing may occur.
• On snow, ice and sand, rear-wheel drive loses its traction advantage to front or all-wheel drive vehicles which have greater weight on the driven wheels. Rear wheel drive cars with rear engine or mid engine configuration do not suffer from this, although fishtailing remains an issue.
• Some rear engine cars (e.g. Porsche 911) can suffer from reduced steering ability under heavy acceleration, because the engine is outside the wheelbase and at the opposite end of the car from the wheels doing the steering although the engine weight over the rear wheels provides outstanding traction and grip during acceleration.
• Decreased interior space — Though individual designs vary greatly, rear wheel drive vehicles may have: Less front leg room as the transmission tunnel takes up a space between the driver and front passenger, less leg room for center rear passengers (due to the tunnel needed for the drive shaft), often no seat for a center rear passenger, and sometimes less trunk space (since there is also more hardware that must be placed underneath the trunk). Rear engine designs (such as the Porsche 911 and Volkswagen Beetle) do not inherently take away interior space.
• Increased weight — The components of a rear wheel drive vehicle's power train are less complex, but they are larger. The driveshaft adds weight. There is extra sheet ....l to form the transmission tunnel. There is a rear axle or rear half-shafts, which are typically longer than those in a front-wheel drive car. A rear wheel drive car will weigh slightly more than a comparable front wheel drive car (but less than four wheel drive).
• Improper weight distribution when loaded — A rear wheel drive car's center of gravity is shifted rearward when heavily loaded with passengers or cargo, which may cause unpredictable handling behavior.[4]
• Higher initial purchase price — Modern rear wheel drive vehicles are typically more expensive to purchase than comparable front wheel drive vehicles. Part of this can be explained by the added cost of materials and increased complex assembly of FR layouts, as the powertrain is not one compact unit. However, the difference is more probably explained by production volumes as most rear-wheel cars are usually in the sports/performance/luxury categories (which tend to be more upscale and/or have more powerful engines), while the FF configuration is typically in mass-produced mainstream cars. Few modern "family" cars have rear-wheel drive as of 2009, so a direct cost comparison is not necessarily possible.
• The possibility of a slight loss in the mechanical efficiency of the drivetrain (approximately 17% coastdown losses between engine flywheel and road wheels compared to 15% for front wheel drive — however these losses are highly dependent on the individual transmission).[citation needed] Cars with rear engine or mid engine configuration and a transverse engine layout do not suffer from this.
• The long driveshaft (on front engine cars) adds to drivetrain elasticity.[4] The driveshaft must also be extended for cars with a stretched wheelbase (e.g. limousines, minivans).

[hesham_soaida]

Four wheel drive layouts
Note: in the United States the term "four-wheel drive" usually refers only to transmissions which are primarily two-wheel drive with a part-time four-wheel drive capability, as typically found in older designs of pickup trucks, while the term "all-wheel drive" is used to refer to full time four-wheel drive systems found in performance cars and off-road vehicles. This section uses the term four-wheel drive to refer to both, as per the rest of the world.

Most 4WD layouts are front-engined and are derivatives of earlier front-engined, two-wheel drive designs. They fall into two major categories:

• Longitudinal-engined 4WD systems are typically (but not always) derived from front-engined, rear-drive layouts, for example Mercedes-Benz 4-matic

• Transverse-engined 4WD systems are derived almost exclusively from front-engined, front-drive layouts, for example in the Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4

For a full explanation of 4wd engineering considerations, see the main article on four-wheel drive

[edit] Advantages

In terms of handling, traction and performance, 4WD systems generally have most of the advantages of both front-wheel drive and rear-wheel drive. Some unique benefits are:

• Traction is nearly doubled compared to a two-wheel drive layout. Given sufficient power, this results in unparalleled acceleration and driveability on surfaces with less than ideal grip, and superior engine braking on loose surfaces. The development of 4WD systems for high performance cars was stimulated primarily by rallying.

• Handling characteristics in normal conditions can be configured to emulate FWD or RWD, or some mixture, even to switch between these behaviours according to circumstance. However, at the limit of grip, a well balanced 4WD configuration will not degenerate into either understeer or oversteer, but instead break traction of all 4 wheels at the same time into a four-wheel drift. Combined with modern electronic driving aids, this flexibility allows production car engineers a wide range of freedom in selecting handling characteristics that will allow a 4WD car to be driven more safely at higher speeds by inexpert motorists than 2WD designs.

[edit] Disadvantages

• 4WD systems require more machinery and complex transmission components, and so increase the manufacturing cost of the vehicle and complexity of maintenance procedures and repairs compared to 2WD designs

• 4WD systems increase power-train mass, rotational inertia and power transmission losses, resulting in a reduction in acceleration performance in ideal dry conditions and increased fuel consumption compared to 2WD designs

• The handbrake cannot be used to induce over-steer for maneuvering purposes, as the drivetrain couples the front and rear axles together. To overcome this limitation, some custom prepared stage rally cars have a special mechanism added to the transmission to disconnect the rear drive if the handbrake is applied while the car is moving.

[attiahf]

يمكن الجر الخلفى يكون احسن علشان يدى عزم مناسب للعربية وكمان العفشة بتكون احسن بس حكاية زيادة وزن العربية فى الجر الخلفى يمكن متمشيش مع العربية التيجو لان وزنها زيادة ويدوبك مناسب الموتور اللى راكب عليها
وفى الاخر دة موضوع احتياجات شخصية ومش حتفرق فى شوارع المحروسة

[fromcairo]

السادة الأفاضل:
أنا بأتابع ردودكم منذ فترة وللاسف لم يقم أحد بشرح ما هو العيب المزعوم فى وصلة البنزين. فإذا كان يوجد فعلا عيب ، أرجو شرحه بالتفصيل حتى يمكن عمل ما يشبه شكوى جماعية مع أقتراح بالتعديل الواجب ونقدمها للمصنع.

أما بالنسبة لموضوع أن التيجو موتورها بالعرض أو الطول وهل ده كويس ولا موش كويس ، فأرجو ملاحظة أن السيارة تيجو ليست سيارة للأستخدام المستمر خارج الطريق Off-Road Car و ليست سيارة جيب ذات دفع رباعى بل هى سيارة للمدينة وبعض الأحيان للمزرعة وذلك واضح تماماً ومذكور بالتفصيل و التحذير بالصفحة رقم 65 من كتالوج التشغيل الخاص بالسيارة والذى يمكن الحصول عليه من موقع شركة شيرى على الأنترنت وملخصه فيما يلى :

Four Wheel Drive System
(If Equipped)
Four Wheel Drive (4WD)
Your vehicle may be equipped with a full-time Four Wheel Drive (4WD) system .
With the 4WD option, power will be delivered to the front wheels and distributed to the rear wheels as needed. The 4WD system is active all the time and requires no input from the operator. 4WD uses all four wheels to power the vehicle. This increases traction, enabling you to drive over terrain
and road conditions that a conventional two-wheel drive vehicle cannot.
Driving Off-Highway With 4WD
Vehicles
Your 4WD vehicle is not intended for off-road use. The 4WD feature gives your vehicle some limited off-road capabilities in which driving surfaces are relatively level, obstruction-free and otherwise similar to normal on-road driving conditions.

NOTE:

Operating your vehicle under conditions that could subject the vehicle to excessive stress which might result in damage is not covered under your warranty.

وبالتالى فلا داعى لكل هذا النقاش وبالذات أن اللى محتاج سيارة دفع رباعى بجد فممكن يتفضل مشكوراً بالبحث فى قسم الجيب الشيروكى أو الميتسوبيشى باجيرو أوالتويوتا لاندكروزر ، حيث أن المواصفات مختلفة تماما فى كل شئ و طبعا الثمن أيضا يفرق كثير جداً جداً.
وزى ما قال الأستاذ / attiahf أن : كل ده موش حيفرق فى شوارع المحروسة.



اللون الأحمر مخصص للمداخلات الإدارية
برجاء تفادي استخدامه في المشاركات

شكرا لتفهمكم
مشرف عام.2

[hesham_soaida]

أنا بأتابع ردودكم منذ فترة وللاسف لم يقم أحد بشرح ما هو العيب المزعوم فى وصلة البنزين. فإذا كان يوجد فعلا عيب ، أرجو شرحه بالتفصيل حتى يمكن عمل ما يشبه شكوى جماعية مع أقتراح بالتعديل الواجب ونقدمها للمصنع.


أعتقد انه لن يشرح أحد شيئا. وهذا أكبر دليل ان الموضوع كله اشاعة مغرضة. فأرجو أن يثبت لي أي شخص عكس هذا الكلام , فسوف أكون شاكر له جدا, وحتى اسحب الفلوس اللي انا حاجز بها العربية.



اللون الأحمر مخصص للمداخلات الإدارية
برجاء تفادي استخدامه في المشاركات

شكرا لتفهمكم
مشرف عام.2

[mantoros]

انا يا سيدي أشرح لك.............



ممكن أشرحلك ضفدعة أو فار

بس أكتر من كده لأ

I ALSO THINK THAT THIS IS ALL A BIG FUSS NOT BASED ON ANYTHING TRUE OR ELSE MANY OTHERS WOULD HAVE COMPLAINED


د. شامل سعيدة

[saloumi]

الاخ العزيز هشام سلام الله عليك

انا لااتهمك ولاشىء واعوذ بالله ان اكون كذلك لكن كل ماقصدته هو عدم نقل الكلام المسموع دون الاخذ في الاعتبار خبرة اللي اشترى وجرب واختصار لكل هذا الجدل اقول لحضرتك لايمكن ان تجد سيارة بهذه المواصفات وتكون بهذا السعر وانا هنا اتكلم عن السيارة التيجو ال 2000 سي سي الاوتوماتيك لانها معي وقد تجاوزت ال 6000 الاف كيلو نصفهم داخل البلد والنصف الاخر على طريق الساحل الشمالي وطريق اسماعيلية وبورسعيد ومن واقع ذلك كله اقول لسيادتك ان السيارة حتى الان زي الفل وانا مرتاح لها جدا جدا اما ال1600 سي سي لااعلم عنها شيئا وتقبل تحياتي


اللون الأحمر مخصص للمداخلات الإدارية
برجاء تفادي استخدامه في المشاركات

شكرا لتفهمكم
مشرف عام.2

[attiahf]

مفيش مشكلة يا جماعة احنى بناقش مشكلى ذكرها احد الاعضاء وبنشوف لو هى فعلا حقيقة يبقى مشكلة كبيرة لو كانت فى كل العربيات ولو مشكلة فردية فكيف يمكن حلها ودة الغرض من اى نقاش